Zubin Chagpar

How did your experience at IE prepare you for your professional career? In what ways do you think the program has changed your life professionally and personally?

My career was reasonably advanced when I came to IE, I chose IE primarily because I wanted to be in Spain, and I wanted a program that was efficient. The program at IE, specifically the MBA, was 13 months.

My experience at IE… even though I felt that I had a global understanding, when you have to work daily, and learn daily with people from different countries, sometimes countries you’ve never been to, sometime countries you’ve never meet anybody from, and sometimes even countries you’ve never heard of, that puts it on another level. The small intricacies of working with different cultures, learning how to work together and get output and value, that’s probably the biggest thing that IE taught me, how to work together, how to build together. Living in a matrix world, it’s hard to do anything by yourself now, and if you can’t work across borders and you can’t work across time zones, you’re going to have a hard time in many companies, many organizations, and many initiatives.

What is one thing you wished you knew, when you were a student?

I wish I fully grasped how short the time is that you have when you’re a student at IE. Any student in general, but particularly here because there’s so much going on, there’s so many activities, so many things to do, and you’ll have your side trips and your fun trips, too, and then it all stops. And then you have to get back to the corporate world or your entrepreneurship endeavour. Time is finite, intrinsically we know that, but sometimes we forget that. So, if I had known just how quickly the time would go by, I probably would have relished the moment more.

The number of people getting into the tech sector without formal education is booming. With so many free, online resources available, is a computer science degree still worth the money?

It’s a very powerful question, a computer science degree will take you four to five years, it will take a lot of effort, a lot of perseverance and grit. It’s not even the studies, but getting through that, too. I believe there’s no substitution for that experience, and I think everyone should go through it, regardless of how education evolves. And you’re right, today we live in a world where there’s so much information accessible and formatted in a way that’s digestible, and that’s just something that will help enhance the experience of getting a degree, in particular a computer science degree. Do you need a computer science degree to enter the technology field? No, you do not. Will that help you, guide you, foment you? Yes, and if you have the opportunity, I would recommend doing it, and if you don’t have the opportunity then of course as you noted there’s a lot of resources to get you to that field.

It’s easier to navigate the waters if you have the degree…

I think it helps. The computer science degree will help you learn the why. While a lot of these programs—I have done some of them myself and they’re great—they help you to understand sort of the “what” and “how to apply”, but not necessarily the “why.” And if you really want to understand something, you really want to get to the details, it’s worth taking that jump to do the “why.” And, of course now there’s so many formats of computer science degrees as well, and if you’ve got a degree in something else—like myself—you can go ahead and do a masters in computer science relatively easy in terms of getting in, and then of course there’s a lot of work behind that, too. So, there’s a lot of options as well if you want to learn the “why” in addition to the “how.”

How has the digital business landscape evolved since the COVID-19 pandemic?

That’s a question that could take us a while to answer. It’s incredible how much acceleration has been to this idea of digital. Having started my career in 2000, I’ve been able to see a big jump in terms of just how much technology is used, but that jump became a leap in the last two years with the COVID pandemic. How comfortable we felt using the technologies, how comfortable we helped having conversations through video conference, we went from “this is a nice to have” to “this is a necessity”. This means that people are now much more comfortable.

But I also want to touch on a very important group of people that now have been brought into the fold, and rightfully so, and these are the frontline workers. These are the folks that are working in hospitals, in clinics, working during COVID for instance; but these are also the folks that work at retail establishments, in farms, in mining organizations. We have now been able to offer technologies that bring them closer into the organization, help them understand the culture so that they don’t create their subculture and not feel part of the overall experience. And I think this is an exciting part. COVID has helped us bring more of us together, and that means companies and organizations are much stronger than before.

What differences have you seen between government agencies in the Middle East and African and their European counterparts in terms of technology adoption?

I would say that we are talking about over 100 countries between Europe, the Middle East and Africa, so there’s differences across the board. But I will say that, to your point, the Middle East is quite open to debate. It will review best practices for regulation and bring them in. They will have a balance in many ways between what is good for the incumbent, and often these are the telecoms and the multinationals that are coming in, and there’s a lot of good work happening over there.

In Europe there’s a heavy flavour on regulation and GDPR, and regulation is good, it’s meant to protect. And then to touch on Africa as well too, there’s just so much opportunity there, there is so much that can be done and what I would do if anyone were focusing on Africa, I would recommend not focusing on where Africa is today but shooting a little bit beyond to where Africa will be and plan for that, because it’s just accelerating so much.

Overall, between the three locations that we just touched on, I would say that I would really encourage that public-private partnership, those public private initiatives. Because when you do it that way all parties get to learn, all parties are invested, and you come to common ground. Rather than taking the approach of just regulation for regulations sake and business for businesses sake, it has to be more complementary as well.

What’s the future of work? You are now working for Microsoft and that’s a question you are for sure asking yourself every day. 

Absolutely. My role is modern work and cybersecurity, and I lead that for the Middle East and Africa. It’s a solution area that expands in a lot of different ways to address modern work. And the future of work is evolving, but I also I think that we sometimes might overshoot our thinking.  Before COVID, no one would want to have standard meetings on tools like Microsoft Teams all the time, and now we might overshoot and say “hey, we think everybody is going to have meetings all the time on Teams.” But it’s actually more of a hybrid model, and it’s allowing people to work how they work, when they work, and allows them to be their authentic selves. And I think that’s the future of work, one where people will be able to work in the way that they feel comfortable and bring themselves into the organization. Technology itself won’t be the end, it will be the means that helps support work.

In my current position at Microsoft, we are working on technologies that allow a group of folks that are meeting—both in person and remotely—to have the same experience, the same sound quality in the room, to have the same visuals—where possible as well—so that no one is left out. While we talk about bringing your authentic self, that also brings the second point of inclusion: this means that we can include more people into the conversation and that’s for the benefit of companies, of stakeholders. Because when you include and people bring their authentic self, you get the best out of everyone, you get the output that you require. People have more choice than ever in terms of where they want to work, when they want to work, how they want to work, and the technology is facilitating that, and that’s a great place to be.

Speaking of inclusion, what can be done to get more women in technology?

This is a topic so important for me, particularly because in the regions that I’ve worked recently it is difficult simply just to recruit and to find the right folks with the right mentality. And we need to open up that pool. I’m very proud that I’ve been able to hire many women leaders, both to work with me and sometimes even I work for them, and that’s the way it has to be.

How do we encourage more inclusion, more women in tech? I think we all need to do our part, and it starts with young people. I have a daughter who is 8 years old. She calls herself tech-girl. She loves technology and she loves learning stuff on Scratch Junior, and she likes a lot of these games like Minecraft. I think we have to not only encourage, but nurture that feeling and do it in a way that helps them grasp how powerful the tools that they’re learning are. But it doesn’t stop there, anybody can come on board into technology, we need to encourage folks to learn. It’s never been more accessible. There are a lot of resources available. And why this is so important to me is that the technology field itself is disruptive, is changing so many other industries, it’s high paying. If we don’t have a good representation of women in this area, we’re going to create a further divide between the haves and the have-nots. And this is to be done between women and men, so we need to make sure that we have that inclusion as well, too.

What advice can you give to early-stage entrepreneurs?

My advice is to keep at it if you have the means to do that. It is a very difficult journey. Sometimes it appears very exciting, a place where you want to be, but it really isn’t for everyone. And I would quote Shakespeare here and say, “to thine own self be true”. Understand if this is where you want to go, it’s okay to be an entrepreneur, it’s okay to bring a spark into a company that might have been there for a couple hundred years, it’s okay to look after a family business… But if you take this early stage—and I’ve been there and it was difficult, and the last time of crisis in 2009 was when I had to shut down my startup and reboot—I would say that if you’re going to do it, do it a hundred percent. I did mine entrepreneur journey twice, it failed twice… I think the third time will get you there. I don’t know if that’s statistically right or relevant but try to keep at it a couple of time because you’ll iterate, you’ll fail, and at some point you’ll get it right.

Something that seems to be very difficult for entrepreneurs is getting out and finding investors.  What advice can you give to these young entrepreneurs looking for their first round of investment?

I’ve made some investments myself, I do it usually on the team, particularly in the early-stage side. I feel like anybody doing a business, depending on what you’re trying to raise, even in a poor economic climate should be able to convince a few people to invest and get you the runway that you require. You need to show results, so if you’re going to go for further rounds, a series A or even a further advanced C round, you’re going to have to show that you have a customer basis, that you’re building up a customer flow. That’s critically important, you need to know stuff like what your average cost is to get a client, what is your lifetime value…you have to be ready for these questions, you can’t just come in like that and just say “hey I’ve got a great product and that’s it, I’ve got a great idea.” So, build it up a bit, build up your solution, get some traction, get some feedback, iterate, and then go and get that investment.

What’s the importance of cultural immersion when doing business?

I have a regional team and I want to get more representation across the different regions because the Middle East and Africa is huge. There is lots of diversity in terms of cultures, seventy-plus countries… So, getting perspective is what we’re here for. I would say our life is about understanding the other person’s perspective. They come with their own views and norms and impact and stories as well. Getting that holistic team can only help an organization. Of course, you need to work together, you need to storm and then norm…

“If you can build a diverse team—women, men, different cultures, different stages of their career—this will only add to your output and to what you can do as a team and as an organization.”

Who is the most fascinating person you’ve ever worked with? And if you could steal one item from this person’s office, what would it be?

Okay well, look I’ve had an opportunity to work with some fantastic people, mentors, and folks that have left an impression on me…I’ll pick Andy Jassy. I didn’t get to work with him a lot, when I got to spend some time with him, he had started off as an Executive Vice President or Senior Vice President at Amazon, specifically for Amazon Web Services. And then he quickly became CEO of Amazon Web Services and is now the CEO of all of Amazon. And we’ve had several interactions, sometimes in groups, sometimes individual. What I love about Andy is his ability to be a leader, be above, high above it all and understanding and grasp what’s happening, and yet dive deep at a moment’s notice when he believes it needs to happen and get right into the specific conversation and understand it as well. I think this is a combination of empathy and sincere listening, innate smarts, and intelligence, and just the ability to put things together and connect the dots. It’s what I strive to do and what I do in terms of connecting the dots and getting output.

Now, I know Andy is a big sports fan, and I’m sure that there’s something in his office right now that I would relate to, probably if it’s related to baseball, or maybe even basketball or ice hockey as well, too. So, if I can sneak in there and grab something and keep it, that would be fantastic.

What’s the secret to having a successful career without sacrificing your personal life? 

Well, that’s a tough one. Balance, equilibrium, harmony, are not necessarily easy. I’ve kind of gone away with this idea of balance, I don’t think you can balance it, I think you need to communicate with your family, let them know where you’re at, what your challenges are… I tried not doing that, and my relationship with my wife and my family is quite young and the kids are young, but I try not to expose to the stress that I might be under, the activities that we have to do… But that was not the right move because I’ve got an empathetic wife that if I just share and open up to and highlight when it’s going to be a difficult week, or month, or maybe even year, she is very understanding and would adapt. So, I think I’d say that the secret to getting that sort of balance sort of flow is just to communicate sincerely.

My wife is just like that, she wants to be informed of everything that I’m doing in the office, and I think it helps to really get that balance or that equilibrium between work and your private life. 

Absolutely. And you just triggered another thought too: it’s okay to also enjoy what you do at work. If you’re enjoying a business trip coming up, let your significant other, let your family know that you’re excited about this, and why. If you do that that way, you’re sincere, if you say “oh I don’t want to go on this business trip” but you’re actually excited it’s going to come across. So just communicate, be sincere, and again, I don’t have it completely figured out by the way, I want to be very clear.

What do you do to decompress?

I’ve got these great kids that I love hanging out with, I love playing with them. Becky’s a builder and David is a destroyer so we can build something with Becky and I then David will go and knock it down. And that might be an age thing, she’s 8 and he’s 5. I also started to realise that I need to start building up on some passions. Before you know it you´ll be out of the workforce and you´ll have to find fine ways to entertain yourself, so I’ve started recently learning more about wine and taking courses on that, and it’s extremely interesting the amount of process that goes into building a great glass of wine. And then the other one is a little bit crazy, but I started doing Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I’m really getting my butt kicked and you know really having to stretch in different ways that I didn’t know I could. But I really am drawn to it because it’s one of the few martial arts that you can actually go full on, versus ones where if you’re doing something like Karate and you really try to strike somebody it’s not going to happen during training, but in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu you don’t strike, you go for submissions. And you can go as hard on as you want because at some point the person will tap out if you’re hurting them. So, you can go really full steam ahead and try to take somebody out and if they are feeling any discomfort they can tap out. So, for that reason I think it feels very genuine, not that the other ones are not, I haven’t done the other ones, but I like that sort of competitive nature of the sport.

How is the Zubin of today different from the Zubin who graduated from IE?

That was almost 11 years ago. I have less hair now, so that’s one thing. I’ve got a bigger family now. But in terms of your question, I think I’m more introspective in many ways, I think I have a better appreciation of the self and, at the same time I have a better appreciation of others. Related to what we spoke about before, I really try to seek out the perspective that somebody is coming with, because for many years I would just have one perspective, my perspective, and realize why wouldn’t people have that same perspective? It was a bit self-centred. I’ve gotten better at taking the time to learn where people are coming from, their “why” rather than my “why”.

That’s good, that’s good. If you had a billboard that you could display to the world, what would you write on it?

“Be you”. I would put “be you”. If you can be your authentic self and bring that out it makes an impact. So, I would put just “be you”, and hopefully save some money because it’s just a very message.

Well, you can put it very big so everyone can read. 

Going to the office or remote work?

Both. So, hybrid work. I enjoy meeting people.

Going deeper into the box or connecting boxes?

Connecting boxes

Terrific business idea or terrific project execution?

It’s all about execution

Teaching or learning?

Teaching, because through teaching you get to learn too

Physical work or mental work?

I’m going to go with physical work. I think there’s a mind-body connection, and I like that of physical work

IE Tower or María de Molina Campus?

I’m old school. So, I’m going to go with María de Molina Campus. But this building that we’re in today (the IE Tower) is phenomenal. Enhorabuena, great job!

Managing or Leading?

Leading

Spanish wines or French wines?

Spanish wines. Absolutely!

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